This is part three, the final in a series on the U.S. Democratic Party debate in Iowa that took place on December 4. A fairly large chunk of time was spent talking about China. The full transcript can be found here. Note that "Norris" "Inskeep" and "Siegel" are the moderators. All other statements being made are from candidates.

NORRIS: Senator Biden, I'd like to begin with you. What kind of human rights commitment should the U.S. try to exact from China, particularly in advance of the 2008 Olympics? And how do you ensure that the country would actually live up to those commitments?

"Exact from China"? Gee, that doesn't sound heavy-handed or anything, does it?

SEN. BIDEN: You can't ensure it but look, this is all about playing by the rules. I've been pushing, as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee for the last seven years, or the ranking member during that period, that we hold China accountable at the United Nations. We won't even, at the United Nations, we won't even designate China as a violator of human rights.

Now, what's the deal there? We're talking about competition. That's the — in terms of trade. It's capitulation, not competition. Name me another country in the world that we would allow to conduct themselves the way this country has — China — and not called them on the carpet at the U.N. Name me another country in the world who would use the trade practices they use with us, that we would not call them on the carpet.

Senator Clinton, what kind of commitment should we try to exact from China?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I agree with Joe very much. You know, 12 years ago, I went to China, and the Chinese didn't want me to come. And they didn't want me to make a speech, and when I made the speech, they blocked it out from being heard within China, where I stood up for human rights and in particular women's rights, because women had been so brutally abused in many settings in China.  

And I think you do have to call them on it. I mean, the Chinese respect us if we actually call them on their misbehavior and their breaches of human rights, economic activities and other kinds of problems that we have with them.  

MR. EDWARDS: You hold them accountable in the WTO. America uses its diplomatic and economic leverage. We have enormous leverage with the Chinese. 

And I want to add on to one thing that Chris just said. This whole issue of balance — if you look at what's happened — and this didn't just happen under George Bush; this has been going on for a decade and a half now — in my hometown, the mill that my father worked in, and the people that I grew up with — that mill's closed now. The jobs are gone. The same thing has happened in Newton, Iowa, and all across this state.

I met a man named Doug Bishop a couple — few years ago, who talked about having to look his child in the eye and explain why his — her daddy, who had worked in that mill his entire life, that factory, had lost his job and hadn't done anything wrong, because his child did not understand.

American trade policy is catering to the interests of big corporate America. It has been for a decade and a half. And we desperately need a president of the United States who, instead of asking, is this going to help corporate profits — is this actually going to stand up for American workers and American jobs. 

SIEGEL: Senator, there's an implication in what you just said. The text — that the United States can become once again a major power in textile production, an industry we associate with low-wage emerging economies. Isn't it fair to think that no matter what our relationship with China, obviously poorer countries are going to be producing a lot of textiles in mills around the world, it's just not what our economy should be specializing in at this time? 

MR. EDWARDS: What is fair to think is that we have had a trade policy that has cost America — my father, who worked in a mill for 37 years so that I could be — and my brother and sister could have a better life than he had, that mill that he worked in is gone. Jobs all across Iowa are gone. And the reason is because America has catered to the interests of corporate profits, not the interests of the American middle class, not the interests of American workers, and not the interests of these manufacturing jobs. 

Are there other things we need to do? Of course there are. America, to be competitive over the long term, needs a trade policy that works, that looks out for the interests of the middle class, but it also needs — America needs to be the most creative, best educated, most innovative workforce on the planet. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. They can both be done at the same time.

NORRIS: Thank you very much. Senator Obama, I just want to return to the question of currency manipulation. You had said that if China is actually manipulating their currency, this country needs to "take them to the mat." What exactly did you mean by that?

SEN. OBAMA: We have legislation that says that if, in fact, they are manipulating their currency — and I think there's no dispute that they are — that we need to take strong action. It's in the Banking Committee. Chris is presiding over that.

And — now, here's the problem. I will say that it's actually a blunt tool. I'd prefer not doing this legislatively. The problem is we've had a president that has shown no leadership on it. So if — and when I am in the White House, I will meet directly with the Chinese leadership and indicate we have to restore balance. And, by the way, we have to mobilize our allies, such as the European Union, to have that conversation with us.

This is an imbalance that is not good for any economy over time. It's not sustainable, the trade imbalances that we have.

But just to go to a point that was made earlier, so often we see these issues as contradictory. Mike Gravel, I am interested, as I said, in making sure that the Chinese population is fed and clothed and advancing. I think that is important.

It is not, I think, in the long-term interests of China to expand solely on the backs of low-wage worker — work that is undermining U.S. work. If we are saying to China, raise your labor standards that will over time improve the lot of Chinese workers as well as U.S. workers. And that's what we should be looking at, is how can we improve the working conditions, the safety conditions, the consumer protections that are available for all people, and that's not what's happening right now.

NORRIS: Senator Obama, thank you. Senator Biden, very quickly.

SEN. BIDEN: Look, first of all, I don't buy this being, "Why are you being so tough on China?" Would we do any of these things with regard to France or Germany or England, our friends, our allies? The answer is we would.

NORRIS: Do you think it's an analogous situation?

SEN. BIDEN: No, I think it is — look, if France was acting like China's acting, we'd be tough with them. If England was doing what China's doing, we'd be tough with them. This is about being fair.

And by the way, to deal with the currency — back in '88 we had the same deal, and what happened, we had a thing called the Plaza Accords. We brought in all of the major currencies in the world to sit down and say we've got to rationalize the currency here. Us doing it by ourselves is the ultimate blunt instrument. We may be able to do that, but were I president, I'd be calling a similar conference, bringing in the rest of the world to rationalize our currencies here.

NORRIS: Time is tight. I just want to return to something that Senator Clinton said. You said that China reacts if they are pressed. So would we believe that — should we believe that the relationship — the U.S. relationship with China under a Hillary Clinton administration would be less one of cooperation and engagement and one more akin to confrontation?

SEN. CLINTON: No. No, absolutely not. It would be a position where we would operate from strength with a coherent policy about what our interests were and what we hope to achieve.

I'll give you a quick example. I have a company in my state that has exported into China for many years. All of a sudden, out of the blue, they were told that they were going to start having tariffs slapped on their product that would have made it absolutely uncompetitive for them to compete. Their alternative was to go into business with some Chinese company, more than likely some kind of front group for the People's Army, and therefore lose their intellectual property. And so I helped them stand up to that, and they respected it and backed down.